Notary Knowledge by Derrick Spruill
"Notary Knowledge by Derrick Spruill," created by Derrick Spruill and hosted by Eddie Montes Travis and Marylyn Lee Trotter, is the definitive podcast resource for navigating the multifaceted world of notarization. This show transcends the typical notary discussion, offering a comprehensive look at the industry from both sides of the signing table.
For notaries, whether seasoned veterans or those just embarking on their professional journey, "Notary Knowledge by Derrick Spruill" provides invaluable insights into the ever-evolving landscape. The hosts delve into the latest legislative changes, industry trends, and best practices, equipping notaries with the knowledge and tools necessary to excel. They explore effective marketing strategies, business development techniques, and the nuances of building a thriving notary practice. The show also addresses the challenges and opportunities notaries face daily, offering practical advice on handling diverse situations and maintaining compliance.
However, "Notary Knowledge by Derrick Spruill" goes beyond simply serving notaries. It also aims to demystify the notarization process for individuals seeking notary services. By examining real-life scenarios and discussing the events that necessitate notary involvement, the podcast provides a clearer understanding of why notarization is essential and what to expect during a signing. Listeners gain insight into the responsibilities of a notary, the importance of proper identification, and the legal implications of notarized documents.
Derrick, Eddie, and Marylyn bring a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the table, fostering engaging discussions and sharing practical wisdom. They feature expert interviews, dissect complex legal issues, and offer life lessons gleaned from years of navigating the notary field. This podcast is a vital resource for anyone seeking to stay informed, understand the notary process, and navigate the intricacies of notarization with confidence. "Notary Knowledge by Derrick Spruill" is a must-listen for notaries looking to elevate their careers and for individuals seeking to understand the critical role notaries play in legal and business transactions.
Check out the "Notary Knowledge Reference Guide and Notary Bible" by Derrick Spruill on Amazon.
Contact Information:
Email us at MobileNotary@DerrickSpruill.com
Give us a call: 1-833-462-4632
Disclaimer: The podcast Notary Knowledge by Derrick Spruill does not provide legal advice. Eddie Montes Travis, Derrick Spruill, and Marylyn Lee Trotter are not lawyers or part of any law firm. This podcast is for informational purposes only.
Notary Knowledge by Derrick Spruill
California Handbook Trivia - Test Your Knowledge Tuesday
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Are you ready to sharpen your skills and test your expertise? Join Eddie Montes Travis and Marylyn Lee Trotter as they challenge you with a fast-paced trivia session focused on the official California Notary Handbook. This episode is designed to help you stay compliant while testing how well you really know the rules of the Golden State. • Journal Requirements: Learn the specific details every California notary must record to ensure their official journal remains accurate and legally sound. • Identification Rules: Test your understanding of which forms of identification are acceptable under current state law when performing an acknowledgment or jurat. • Fines and Penalties: Discover the potential consequences and civil penalties for failing to follow the strict guidelines outlined by the Secretary of State. • Conflict of Interest: Understand the clear boundaries regarding financial interest and when you must legally refuse to notarize a document for a family member. Keeping your knowledge fresh is the best way to protect your commission and serve your clients with confidence. Make sure you stay updated with every Test Your Knowledge Tuesday session. Please subscribe and like the podcast to support our community and never miss a trivia challenge!
Show Notes:
• Detailed review of California Notary Handbook trivia questions.
• Explanation of essential journal entry requirements for state compliance.
• Clarification on acceptable signer identification and potential legal penalties.
• Insights into navigating conflicts of interest as a public official.
Buy Becoming a Notary on Amazon
Notary Knowledge Reference Guide and Notary Bible on Amazon
Your Sunday Notary Reading:
Notary Public Foundation: Essential Guide to Core Duties, Ethics, and Commissioning on Amazon
Your Monday Notary Reading:
Notary Operational Excellence: Mastering Certificates, Journals, Ink, and Copy Certification on Amazon
Your Tuesday Notary Reading:
Notary Fraud Shield: Real-World Tactics, Red Flags, and Refusal Strategies on Amazon
Your Wednesday Notary Reading:
The Mobile Notary Blueprint: Launching and Managing Your On-Demand Business on Amazon
Your Thursday Notary Reading:
Notary Niche Navigator: Your Guide to Loan Signings, Apostilles, I-9s, and More on Amazon
Your Friday Notary Reading:
Notary Law & Liability: Understanding State Regulations, Insurance, and Avoiding UPL
Your Saturday Notary Reading:
The Future Notary: Mastering RON, eNotary, and Complex Scenarios on Amazon
Quick & Easy Solutions: How to Increase Mobile Notary Business for More Success & Profit: with 37 Professional Tips on Amazon
Executive Producer Derrick Spruill
Writers Marylyn Lee Trotter and Eddie Montes Travis
Graphics & Illustrations by Eddie Montes Travis
Music by Thomas Bynum
This Show is Produced by Magnificent Workz
Business Solutions
Since you started your notary business, strive for excellence. Introducing the book Notary Operational Excellence by Derek Spruel. Build your business on a beacon of precision and trust with expert advice. Check out Notary Operational Excellence by Derek Spruel from Amazon.com, Barnes Noble, Books of Million, Bookshop.org, Mobile Notary by DerekSpruell.com, or download from Kindle today.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Notary Knowledge. I am Marilyn.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I am Eddie.
SPEAKER_02And we are uh so glad to have you with us today.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So we want to set the tone right out of the gate here. If you are listening to us right now, you know, maybe you're driving to an appointment or just sitting at your desk. You are on the front lines of commerce and law every single day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you really are.
SPEAKER_02And the rules governing your commission, they aren't just like bureaucratic red tape or annoying suggestions.
SPEAKER_03Right. They're structural shields.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. They protect the public from predatory fraud, and frankly, they protect you from just catastrophic personal and financial liability.
SPEAKER_03That is exactly the perspective we need to start with today. We are approaching this material from an experienced, high-level standpoint.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03We really want to challenge what you think you know. Because, you know, it's very easy to fall into a routine, right?
SPEAKER_02Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_03To just stamp a document because it looks familiar, or um to bend a rule just a tiny bit to help out a frustrated client.
SPEAKER_02Which happens all the time.
SPEAKER_03All the time. But as we've discussed in our prior episodes, the state does not care about your good intentions if you break the structural integrity of the notarial act.
SPEAKER_02They really don't.
SPEAKER_03We treat this ongoing educational journey with the utmost seriousness, just because the consequences of getting it wrong are so severe.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And uh before we jump into the gauntlet we've prepared for you today, we want to make sure you have the tools you need to actually survive it.
SPEAKER_03Always be prepared.
SPEAKER_02Right. So if you haven't already, you really need to pick up the Notary Knowledge books by Derek Sproul.
SPEAKER_03They're completely essential reading.
SPEAKER_02Essential. Also, make sure you visit the Notary Knowledge website. The resources there are designed specifically to elevate your daily practice, you know, and keep you completely compliant.
SPEAKER_03And there's more, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You should also check out the video podcast No Notary with Eddie Montes Travis. It has incredible visual breakdowns of these concepts.
SPEAKER_03Highly recommend it.
SPEAKER_02And if you are short on time during your busy day, you can catch my quick hit, actionable tips on Maryland's 90 seconds of notary.
SPEAKER_03There is just a massive, comprehensive ecosystem of knowledge waiting for you across all of those platforms.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, tap into it.
SPEAKER_03You really should. Because today, we are focusing squarely on California laws.
SPEAKER_02Oh boy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. California has some of the most rigorous, specific, and frankly, punitive notary statutes in the entire country.
SPEAKER_02They really do not play around.
SPEAKER_03No, they don't. The legislature there has crafted a system that assumes high risk at every single turn, which is why the penalties are so incredibly steep.
SPEAKER_02Right. So to really test your grasp of these statutes, our run-up show today is a California Handbook Trivia Challenge.
SPEAKER_03I love this format.
SPEAKER_02Me too. So here's how this is going to work. We have prepared 10 multiple choice questions for you.
SPEAKER_03It's tough ones.
SPEAKER_02Very tough. And for every single question, we will set up a very specific real-world scenario.
SPEAKER_03Stuff you actually see in the field.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. We will present the question and give you four options. Then we will have our audio engineer add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right there.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell Just to build the suspense.
SPEAKER_02Right. To let you mentally lock in your answer. And you got to commit to it. Don't second guess yourself.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Ross Powell Go with your gut. Or while you're training.
SPEAKER_02You're training, preferably. And once you've locked it in, we will reveal the correct answer.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell But we aren't just going to give you the answer and move on, right?
SPEAKER_02No, absolutely not. We are going to rip the scenario apart. We want to analyze exactly why the law works the way it does.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell Uncover all the hidden traps.
SPEAKER_02Trevor Burrus Right. Explore those mechanisms of liability that are just hiding beneath the surface.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Ross Powell We want you to understand the philosophy of the law, not just, you know, memorize the fine amounts.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell Exactly. Because if you understand the why, you will never forget the what.
SPEAKER_03That's the goal.
SPEAKER_02So let's start with the money. Because this is where a vast number of professionals accidentally trip the wire and find their commission suspended.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell Yeah, the billing traps.
SPEAKER_02Right. How much can a Californian notary legally charge? And what happens when the lines blur between travel fees and the actual fees for official acts?
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell It gets messy.
SPEAKER_02It really does. So here is your first scenario. Let's talk about Lucas.
SPEAKER_03Okay, Lucas.
SPEAKER_02Lucas is a mobile notary operating in California, and he is called to a really busy downtown corporate office to perform a single acknowledgement.
SPEAKER_03Sounds pretty standard.
SPEAKER_02Right. But because he had to fight terrible rush hour traffic, he had to pay for an expenditure parking garage and, you know, lug his supplies up thirty flights of stairs. He just charges the client a flat $25 for the signature to cover his time and the hassle. So the question is, has Lucas committed a violation? And if so, what is the penalty? Here are your options.
SPEAKER_03Listen closely.
SPEAKER_02Option A, no, mobile fees are entirely unregulated in California, so a flat fee is fine. Okay. Option B, yes, overcharging carries a maximum $750 to $1,500 fine and possible suspension. Yes, but it is only considered a minor $500 infraction. Or option D, no, as long as the total flat fee remains under $30, it falls within acceptable market rates. All right.
SPEAKER_03Think about it.
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03Okay, lock in that answer.
SPEAKER_02The correct choice is option B. Lucas has committed a major violation.
SPEAKER_03Lucas is in serious trouble here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he is. Break it down for us.
SPEAKER_03So under California government code 8211, the state strictly caps the fee for an acknowledgement or a giraffe at a maximum of $15 per signature. Full stop. $15. By lumping his travel hassle, his parking and his time into a single flat $25 fee for the signature itself, he has officially overcharged for a notarial act.
SPEAKER_02Wait, I need to stop you there. Sure. Because I know notaries listening to this are like screaming at the radios right now.
SPEAKER_03I can hear them.
SPEAKER_02Right. Let me push back on this with an analogy. Go for it. Think about ordering food. If I order a $15 burger for delivery, the restaurant charges me $15 for the burger and maybe a $10 delivery fee.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02The total is $25 out of my pocket. So Lucas essentially charged $25 for a $15 burger. If the total out-of-pocket cost for the client is exactly the same either way, why on earth does the state care if I call it a travel fee or just bundle it together as a flat fee?
SPEAKER_03I hear you.
SPEAKER_02It just feels like bureaucratic nitpicking to trap us, you know?
SPEAKER_03I completely understand the frustration, but it really isn't nitpicking. It goes back to a foundational legal philosophy.
SPEAKER_02Okay, explain that.
SPEAKER_03You have to remember what you actually are. You're not a private business owner when you apply that stamp. Right. You are a ministerial officer of the state of California. The state mandates that this critical public service, the authentication of a signature to prevent fraud, must remain financially accessible to every single member of the public.
SPEAKER_02Oh, regardless of their income.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It's an accessibility issue.
SPEAKER_02So it's about keeping the core service cheap.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Because if the state allowed notaries to arbitrarily bundle, you know, hassle fees, parking fees, or convenience fees into the baseline price of the signature.
SPEAKER_02The market gets completely opaque.
SPEAKER_03Completely opaque. A vulnerable consumer might think the state of California actually demands $25 or $50 or $100 just to validate a document. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02Which means they might not get critical legal documents notarized because they think they literally can't afford the state fee.
SPEAKER_03Precisely. It creates a barrier to entry for the legal system.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_03Now, to be clear, travel fees or mobile fees are completely unregulated in California. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02Right. You can charge whatever for the travel part.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You can charge $50, $100, or $200 for travel, depending on the distance, the time of day, and what the client is willing to negotiate.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell, so the state really doesn't care about the travel fee itself.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Ross Powell They don't care at all.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But, and this is the absolute critical distinction that travel fee must be segregated.
SPEAKER_02Kept totally separate.
SPEAKER_03Yes. It must be negotiated beforehand, and it must be itemized entirely separately on the receipt and in your sequential journal.
SPEAKER_02So on the receipt, it has to clearly say, like, State Notarial Act, $15, independent travel fee, $10.
SPEAKER_03Yes. The consumer must be able to look at that receipt and know exactly what the state required and what they paid for the luxury of you driving to their office.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03By charging a flat $25 for the signature, Lucas essentially told the client that the state fee is $25.
SPEAKER_02And that is a lie under the law.
SPEAKER_03It is a literal lie under the law.
SPEAKER_02Wow. And the penalties for this are incredibly aggressive, right? This isn't just a, hey, here's a warning letter scenario.
SPEAKER_03Oh, not at all. Overcharging is a regulatory infraction that the Secretary of State's auditing division takes incredibly seriously.
SPEAKER_02I've heard they really go after it.
SPEAKER_03They do. We have seen commissions suspended for overcharging by as little as $5 on a transaction.
SPEAKER_02Five dollars?
SPEAKER_03Yes. Because the state views it as exploiting the public trust. So depending on whether the Secretary of State views Lucas' actions as a negligent mistake or willful misconduct.
SPEAKER_02He's looking at heavy fines.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. He is looking at a civil penalty of up to $750 for negligence. Or up to $1,500 if they determined it was a willful violation.
SPEAKER_02Plus losing his commission.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. The very real threat of having his commission suspended or revoked.
SPEAKER_02And just to round out the billing discussion, because um the state loves its specific caps, you have to memorize the other statutory limits too, right?
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, there are quite a few.
SPEAKER_02For instance, depositions. You can charge $30 for all services connected to taking a deposition. Right. And on top of that, you can charge $7 for administering the oath to the witness and another $7 for the certificate of the deposition. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_03And we cannot forget the mandatory free services.
SPEAKER_02Oh, the free ones, right.
SPEAKER_03These are absolute zero-dollar transactions. You cannot charge a single dime for notarizing a United States military veterans application for benefits.
SPEAKER_02Or any document related to a veteran's claim.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And similarly, you cannot charge anything for notarizing vote-by-mail ballot materials or other voting documents.
SPEAKER_02If you charge even a penny for those.
SPEAKER_03You are in direct, immediate violation of the law.
SPEAKER_02So the ultimate takeaway for you on billing is absolute precision.
SPEAKER_03Absolute precision, never bundle.
SPEAKER_02Right. Segregate the statutory notarial fee from any administrative, travel, or convenience fees, and make sure your client understands the difference before you ever put the car in drive.
SPEAKER_03Perfectly said.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so we've established that overcharging for a signature can cost you your commission.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_02But let's say you get the billing perfectly right. You arrive, you itemize your fees, and the client hands you the document.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02What happens if the actual piece of paper they hand you is fundamentally flawed?
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's where the fun really begins.
SPEAKER_02It is. That brings us to our second scenario. And this one is wild because a simple missing box can render a document completely unrecordable in the state of California.
SPEAKER_03It really can.
SPEAKER_02So here is the situation. Patty is a title officer located in Washington, D.C.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And she mails a document to a signer residing in California. The signer brings this physical document to you. Right. You are reviewing the paperwork, and you notice the pre-printed acknowledgement on the document is missing the mandatory California consumer warning box at the very top.
SPEAKER_03Ah, the classic missing box.
SPEAKER_02Right. So what must you, the California notary, do in this situation? Here are your options. But let's hear them. Option A handwrite the exact warning wording in the margins of the document so it is compliant. Okay. Option B, proceed as is because the document originated out of state and falls under federal commerce exceptions.
SPEAKER_03Interesting.
SPEAKER_02Option C attach a perfectly compliant California loose certificate. Or option D, refuse the notarization entirely and send the client away.
SPEAKER_03All right, lock it in.
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03Good to your answer.
SPEAKER_02All right. The correct answer is option C. You must attach a compliant California loose certificate.
SPEAKER_03This is such a classic trap for newer notaries.
SPEAKER_02It really is, especially when dealing with out-of-state title companies.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. Out-of-state attorneys and title companies often have absolutely no idea how strict California is.
SPEAKER_02They just assume their standard form is fine everywhere.
SPEAKER_03Right. And to understand why this specific box is so rigidly enforced, you kind of have to look at the historical context.
SPEAKER_02Take us back.
SPEAKER_03Let's go back to the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. Between, say, 2009 and 2013, California saw a massive, unprecedented spike in real estate fraud.
SPEAKER_02Oh, the predatory mortgage modifications.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Massive consumer abuse.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell, I actually remember reading about those cases. Fraudsters were essentially setting up fake foreclosure rescue clinics, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they were.
SPEAKER_02They were preying on incredibly vulnerable populations like often the elderly or non-English speakers who were just terrified of losing their homes.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And the weapon they used to close the deal was the notary seal.
SPEAKER_02That's the craziest part to me.
SPEAKER_03It is. These predators would present a highly predatory, completely one-sided or outright forged contract to the victim.
SPEAKER_02And the victim would hesitate, obviously.
SPEAKER_03Right. Then the frost would point to the gold notary seal and the official signature of the notary public at the bottom of the page. Oh no. And they would tell the victim look, the state of California has reviewed this document, the state has approved it. This seal means it's totally legal and fair to you.
SPEAKER_02And people believed it.
SPEAKER_03Of course they did.
SPEAKER_02Because people fundamentally misunderstand what a notary actually does. They assumed the official seal validated the contents of the contract itself rather than just the signature.
SPEAKER_03Right. So the California legislature recognized this massive systemic failure of public understanding. In 2014, they passed Senate Bill 1050, which went into effect on January 1st, 2015.
SPEAKER_02The famous SB 1050.
SPEAKER_03Yep. This law mandated a very specific, inescapable consumer notification box at the top of all acknowledgments, girats, and proofs of execution.
SPEAKER_02And the exact wording is burned into my brain. Let's hear it. It says a notary public or other officer completing the certificate verifies only the identity of the individual who signed the document to which the certificate is attached, and not the truthfulness, accuracy, or validity of that document.
SPEAKER_03Perfectly recited.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. And it has to be enclosed in a box, has to be legible, and it must sit right at the top of the certificate above the venue.
SPEAKER_03It is essentially a giant state mandated disclaimer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it really is.
SPEAKER_03And it serves a dual purpose. First, it protects the consumer from being misled by a predator. It forces them to realize that the notary is not a lawyer blessing the deal. Right. But second, it aggressively protects the notary from being dragged into a civil lawsuit and accused of endorsing or facilitating a fraudulent document.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell That makes total sense. But um let's look at the practical reality of option A for a second.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Let's say I'm sitting there, the client is in a massive rush, and I realize the Washington, D.C. form doesn't have the box.
SPEAKER_03Happens every day.
SPEAKER_02I have my pen, I have really neat, precise handwriting. Why can't I just quickly draw a little box in the margin and write those exact words? Isn't the spirit of the law just getting the warning on the paper?
SPEAKER_03The state of California does not care about your neat handwriting, and they do not care about the spirit of the law in this context.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_03The statute requires the notice to be enclosed in a box, and it must appear in its entirety before the venue.
SPEAKER_02Before the state of California County of Arcade.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. If you try to handwrite it, you are almost guaranteed to run out of space to put it in the exact statutory location. Furthermore, if you accidentally omit a single word like if you write verifies the identity instead of verifies only the identity.
SPEAKER_02The whole thing is ruined.
SPEAKER_03The entire certificate is legally noncompliant.
SPEAKER_02And the county recorders are militant about this, right?
SPEAKER_03Absolutely militant. Because it is statutory law, county recorders across all 58 California counties are trained to look for that specific graphic design element.
SPEAKER_02The box itself.
SPEAKER_03The box. If you ignore this rule, if you just stamp the pre-printed DC form without the box, the county recorder will flat out reject the document when it goes to be recorded.
SPEAKER_02And when a document gets rejected, it delays the transaction.
SPEAKER_03Massive delays.
SPEAKER_02That means loan locks expire, interest rates change, people lose serious money, and who do they blame?
SPEAKER_03They blame the notary.
SPEAKER_02They blame the notary. It destroys your professional reputation and it opens you up to massive liability from the title company.
SPEAKER_03Which is exactly why the only professional, flawless solution is option C. You draw a clean line through the noncompliant preprinted certificate.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03You write the words C attached certificate. Then you take a perfect, state compliant, loose California certificate from your supplies and you securely staple it to the document.
SPEAKER_02Clean and simple? But what if a notary just gets lazy?
SPEAKER_03Lazy is expensive.
SPEAKER_02Like what if they willfully ignore this and continually use outdated pre-2015 forms because they bought a lifetime supply 10 years ago?
SPEAKER_03They're looking at the exact same civil penalties we discussed in the billing scenario. Up to $750 for a negligent omission of the box, or $1,500 for a willful omission plus potential suspension.
SPEAKER_02That strict, unforgiving protocol is exactly why modern notaries are terrified of making errors, not just on the certificates, but in their record keeping.
SPEAKER_03Record keeping is everything.
SPEAKER_02It is. And speaking of protecting your records and staying perfectly compliant, this is a great time to mention an incredible tool that can eliminate a lot of this anxiety.
SPEAKER_03Oh, definitely.
SPEAKER_02I want you to check out the One Ledger Notary eJournal. It is available right now on the Apple App Store.
SPEAKER_03It's a fantastic app.
SPEAKER_02It really is. It was crafted by the brilliant minds over at the Magnificent Works team, and they designed it specifically to streamline your entire workflow while maintaining ironclad state compliant security.
SPEAKER_03It takes so much of the guesswork out of the process.
SPEAKER_02It does. And because you are listening to us today, you get a special perk. When you download it, use the promo code NOTARYNO50. That is going to get you 50% off your first year's annual plan.
SPEAKER_03That's a great deal.
SPEAKER_02Again, that's code NOTARYNO50 on the Apple App Store. It is a total game changer for keeping your practice secure.
SPEAKER_03Highly recommend checking that out.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And you know, that level of digital precision perfectly tees up our next scenario because we need to talk about fixing errors.
SPEAKER_03Ah, yes. The dreaded typos.
SPEAKER_02Right. We just spent all this time establishing exactly what the certificate needs to say and the exact box it needs to sit in. But what happens when the preprinted certificate says the wrong thing?
SPEAKER_03It's a high-stakes game.
SPEAKER_02It is a high-stakes game of forensics. So here's our third scenario.
SPEAKER_03Let's hear it.
SPEAKER_02A California notary is presented with a document destined for Carl who lives in Nevada.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Nevada.
SPEAKER_02The preprinted venue on the document incorrectly states State of Nevada, County of Clark. However, the signer is currently sitting directly across the table from the notary in California.
SPEAKER_03Happens all the time.
SPEAKER_02All the time. So how should the California notary correct this preprinted venue error? Here are your options.
SPEAKER_03Option A.
SPEAKER_02Use whiteout to completely cover the error and stamp your seal over it to authenticate the change. Okay. Option B, leave it alone and have Carl, the recipient in Nevada, correct it later since it's his document. Option C, line through the incorrect text with a single strike, print the correct California venue, and initial and date it before completing the notarization.
SPEAKER_03Sounds very specific.
SPEAKER_02Or option D, a California notary cannot alter pre-printed venues under any circumstances and must refuse the document.
SPEAKER_03All right. What do you think?
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03Make your choice.
SPEAKER_02All right. The correct answer is option C.
SPEAKER_03Correct. So to understand the mechanics of this, we first need to define what the venue actually does.
SPEAKER_02The state of county F part.
SPEAKER_03Right. The venue on a notarial certificate establishes the exact geographic footprint of your jurisdiction at the precise moment the notarial act occurs.
SPEAKER_02So it's about location.
SPEAKER_03It is the legal anchor of your authority. If you are physically sitting in Los Angeles, your venue must say state of California, County of Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_02Regardless of anything else.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It does not matter where the document was drafted, where the property is located, or where the document is being mailed. The venue is about where your feet are physically planted.
SPEAKER_02So when a document comes in drafted by a Nevada lawyer with Clark County preprinted on it, you absolutely have to fix it.
SPEAKER_03You cannot ignore it.
SPEAKER_02But the method of fixing it is where notaries walk straight into fraud allegations.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yes, they do.
SPEAKER_02Why is option A using whiteout such a cardinal sin in our profession? I mean, people use whiteout in offices every day to fix typos.
SPEAKER_03Office memos are not legal evidence. Legal documents are. Whiteout, or opaque correction fluid, entirely obscures the original text. From a legal and evidentiary standpoint, any time you obscure original text on a legally binding. Document, you instantly raise the suspicion of unauthorized alteration, concealment, or outright fraud.
SPEAKER_02How does that actually play out in a courtroom, though?
SPEAKER_03Imagine a defense attorney cross-examining a document in court, say, five years from now. They see a big blob of whiteout on the venue.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03A judge or a county recorder cannot chemically peel back that whiteout to see what was underneath it. They have no way of knowing if the venue originally said Nevada or if it originally said something else entirely.
SPEAKER_02Or if someone applied the whiteout after the fact to change the jurisdiction and hide a crime. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03The legal standard for correcting a certificate is absolute transparency.
SPEAKER_02Which means showing your work. Kind of like a math test.
SPEAKER_03Exactly like a math test.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You draw one single clean line through the incorrect information.
SPEAKER_02Just one line.
SPEAKER_03Just one. You do not scribble it out heavily until it's unreadable. The original error must remain completely readable beneath your line.
SPEAKER_02So they can see it used to say Nevada.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Then you print the correct information, legibly right next to it, and you place your initials and the date next to the correction.
SPEAKER_02To prove you did it then.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. This proves that you, the notary, made the correction at the exact time of the notarization, and you are hiding absolutely nothing.
SPEAKER_02Okay, let's extrapolate this into a really common, terrifying scenario that I know happens all the time. Uh-oh. You follow the rules, you finish the notarization, you hand the document back to the signer, they walk out the door, get in their car, and they drive away. Ten minutes later, you are reviewing your journal and your copies, and your stomach just drops.
SPEAKER_03You know that feeling.
SPEAKER_02You realize, oh no, I completely forgot to change the venue from Nevada to California. It still says Clark County.
SPEAKER_03It's a bad moment.
SPEAKER_02It is. So can I just call the signer on their cell phone, explain the clerical typo, get their verbal authorization to fix it, and have them mail the document back to me tomorrow so I can draw that single line through it and mail it back?
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Categorically not.
SPEAKER_02Not even if they say it's okay.
SPEAKER_03No. This is a crucial unbending rule for you to internalize right now. California has a zero tolerance policy for post-notarization corrections.
SPEAKER_02Zero tolerance.
SPEAKER_03Once that notarial act is complete, the seal is applied, and the signer has left your physical presence, you cannot alter that certificate. Ever.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_03You cannot mail them a replacement certificate to swap out. You cannot tell them to fix it themselves.
SPEAKER_02But why? I mean, if it is just a clear clerical typo, why can't we just apply common sense? Everyone knows it was a mistake. Why force a massive inconvenience?
SPEAKER_03Because the law does not operate on assumptions of good faith.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03It operates on the chain of custody. The moment that document leaves your direct physical control, the chain of custody is shattered.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I see.
SPEAKER_03If they mail it back to you a day later, how do you, as an officer of the state, legally swear that the document attached to the certificate is the exact same unaltered document you originally notarized?
SPEAKER_02I can't.
SPEAKER_03You can't. They could have swapped out page two. They could have altered the financial terms. Yeah. By altering a certificate after the fact, you are essentially backdating a legal event, which is a form of fraud.
SPEAKER_02So what is the painful reality? How do you actually fix it?
SPEAKER_03The signer must physically return to you.
SPEAKER_02Oof.
SPEAKER_03You must perform a completely new, from scratch, in-person notarization. That means a brand new entry in your sequential journal, a completely new certificate with a correct venue, and a brand new signature from the client.
SPEAKER_02It is incredibly inconvenient.
SPEAKER_03The client will likely be furious.
SPEAKER_02Very furious.
SPEAKER_03But it is the only way to preserve the absolute unimpeachable integrity of the notarial seal.
SPEAKER_02That is a harsh lesson to learn the hard way.
SPEAKER_03Very harsh.
SPEAKER_02It is so much easier to just slow down, take a breath, and check your venues before you ever reach for your stamp.
SPEAKER_03Check twice, stamp once.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. All right, let's move to scenario number four. We've been talking about how strict California is within its own borders, but sometimes crossing state lines changes the rules of the game entirely.
SPEAKER_03It definitely complicates things.
SPEAKER_02California notaries usually live and die by California wording, but there is one major fascinating exception in the law.
SPEAKER_03I love this exception.
SPEAKER_02It's a good one. So here is the setup. Fiona needs a document notarized today in California.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02However, the document is a corporate filing that is going to be sent to and recorded in Idaho. Idaho, got it. The preprinted Idaho acknowledgement form on the document asks the notary to certify not just Fiona's identity, but to certify that Fiona is the CEO of her company. Uh-huh. Can you, the California notary, complete this out-of-state acknowledgement exactly as it is written? Here are your options.
SPEAKER_03Option A.
SPEAKER_02Yes, because the document is leaving the state, so Idaho's legal rules supersede California's rules for the certificate. Option B, yes, but only if Fiona provides exhaustive proof, like showing her corporate badge, articles of incorporation, and a letterhead document. Option C, no. California notaries cannot certify representative capacity. Or option D, no. California notaries can never use out-of-state warning under any circumstances whatsoever.
SPEAKER_03Lock in your answer.
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03What's the verdict?
SPEAKER_02Alright, the correct answer is option C, no, you cannot certify representative capacity.
SPEAKER_03This specific scenario touches on California Civil Code, Section 1189C. It is a fantastic, highly specific nuance in the law that you really need to understand.
SPEAKER_02Break it down for us.
SPEAKER_03Generally speaking, if a document is going to be filed in another state, a California notary actually is permitted to use that other state's preprinted acknowledgement wording.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_03Yes. The legislature recognized that forcing California wording onto documents going to New York or Texas sometimes caused those receiving states to reject them.
SPEAKER_02Because it didn't match their local statutes.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. So that eliminates option D. You absolutely can use foreign state wording.
SPEAKER_02However, there is a massive, impenetrable restriction attached to that allowance.
SPEAKER_03There is. You can use the Idaho form, provided the form does not require the California notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02Let's define representative capacity for a second.
SPEAKER_03Good idea.
SPEAKER_02We are talking about titles and roles, right? Like CEO, president, vice president, trustee, executor of an estate, attorney, in fact.
SPEAKER_03Yes, exactly. Any role representing another entity.
SPEAKER_02But I want to push back on the logic here.
SPEAKER_03Do it.
SPEAKER_02Let's look at option B. If Fiona is sitting at my desk and she hands me a letter on official company letterhead naming her CEO, and she hands me a corporate ID badge with her face and the title CEO, and maybe even a business card. Sure. Why can't I just look at that evidence, verify it, and sign the Idaho form? I verify driver's licenses all day long. Why is a corporate badge different?
SPEAKER_03Because you have to understand the limits of your jurisdiction and your training. Under California law, a notary public's purview is strictly exclusively limited to verifying the identity of the individual standing in front of them as a human being.
SPEAKER_02Just the human.
SPEAKER_03Just the human. You are authenticating that Fiona is Fiona based on statutory government-issued identification, like a driver's license or a passport. You are not a private investigator, you are not a judge, and you're certainly not a corporate auditor.
SPEAKER_02What does it actually take to verify a CEO legally?
SPEAKER_03That's the crux of it. To legally prove someone is the active CEO of a corporation, an attorney or an auditor would have to review the original articles of incorporation.
SPEAKER_02Wow, okay.
SPEAKER_03They would have to review the corporate bylaws. They would need to see certified board meeting minutes proving she was elected to the role.
SPEAKER_02That's a lot of paperwork.
SPEAKER_03It is. They would have to check the Secretary of State's active business roster to ensure the corporation is even in good standing and hasn't been dissolved. A notary sitting at a kitchen table simply does not have the jurisdiction, the legal training, the time, or the tools to conduct a comprehensive corporate audit.
SPEAKER_02And a corporate badge doesn't cut it.
SPEAKER_03A corporate badge can be manufactured for $5 on the internet. Letterhead can be stolen from a printer. Establishing legal standing requires a level of legal determination that falls far outside your authority.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Okay, so you can't be a corporate auditor. What is the actual boots on the ground protocol here? Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_03Right. How do you handle Fiona?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Fiona is sitting there, she is stressed, she needs this document sent to Idaho by FedEx in an hour. What do you do to help her without breaking the law?
SPEAKER_03You rely on clear communication. You politely but firmly explain that California law strictly prohibits you from certifying her corporate title.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03You draw a single line through the Idaho notarial certificate to cross it out. Then you attach a loose compliant California all-purpose acknowledgement.
SPEAKER_02Because the standard California acknowledgement is brilliant in its simplicity.
SPEAKER_03It really is. It simply states that Fiona appeared before you, that you identified her, and that she acknowledged executing the document. It makes absolutely no mention of her title.
SPEAKER_02And when we attach that loose certificate, we have to follow the anti-fraud protocol we outlined earlier.
SPEAKER_03You're lust.
SPEAKER_02You can't just hand Fiona a loose piece of paper with a stamp on it and tell her to put it in the FedEx envelope.
SPEAKER_03No, you write C attached California acknowledgement on the document itself.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Then on the lease certificate, you must write a highly detailed description of the document it is attached to. You write the exact title of the document, the total number of pages, the date of the document, and the signer's name, and you staple it securely.
SPEAKER_02You do this to build a permanent audit trail.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. You are ensuring that nobody can unstaple your pristine, valid California certificate and fraudulently attach it to a completely different document later on.
SPEAKER_02You are protecting yourself and you are protecting the receiving party in Idaho.
SPEAKER_03Exactly right.
SPEAKER_02All right, let's keep moving. Scenario number five. We're going to transition from the physical paper to the physical person.
SPEAKER_03The human element.
SPEAKER_02Yes, we need to talk about biometrics. California is unique in its sweeping biometric journal requirements, which frequently and aggressively clash with modern privacy concerns.
SPEAKER_03People get very touchy about this.
SPEAKER_02They really do. So here is the situation. Keisha is visiting California, and while she is here, she is signing a deed of trust for a piece of real estate located back home in Alabama.
SPEAKER_03Okay, an Alabama property.
SPEAKER_02When you, the Californian notary, ask for her right thumbprint for your sequential journal, Keisha recoils. Happens. She flatly refuses, citing strict privacy concerns, fear of identity theft, and government tracking.
SPEAKER_03She doesn't want to give it up.
SPEAKER_02What is your required action in the face of this refusal? Here are your options.
SPEAKER_03Option A.
SPEAKER_02Note her verbal refusal in the journal, write refused in the thumbprint box, and proceed with the notarization.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Option B, refuse to perform the notarization entirely.
SPEAKER_03Option C, take a photo of her government ID with your smartphone to serve as biometric backup instead of the thumbprint. Interesting workaround.
SPEAKER_02Or option D, skip the thumbprint requirement entirely because the real property is located in Alabama outside of California's jurisdiction.
SPEAKER_03All right, lock in your answer.
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03What's the right move?
SPEAKER_02The correct answer is option B, you must refuse the notarization entirely.
SPEAKER_03This is a scenario that truly tests your nerve and your professionalism.
SPEAKER_02It really does because signers can get incredibly defensive, angry, and hostile about surrendering their biometric data.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, they will yell at you. But the law here, found in government code A206A2G, is absolute and unyielding.
SPEAKER_00No exceptions.
SPEAKER_03No exceptions for privacy advocates. You must obtain a right thumbprint for deeds, quit claim deeds, deeds of trust, powers of attorney, and any other documents affecting real property.
SPEAKER_02Let's address option D first because I can hear the argument forming.
SPEAKER_03Right, the Alabama thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Keisha's property is a house sitting in Alabama. Why does California property law apply to an Alabama house?
SPEAKER_03Well, it doesn't. California property law doesn't apply, but California notary law applies.
SPEAKER_02Oh, because of where we are standing.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Because the Notarial Act, the physical application of the stamp and signature, is taking place within the borders of California. The jurisdiction of the notary is entirely geographic. If your feet are on California soil, California law governs the transaction, regardless of where the document goes or where the physical dirt is located.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so Keisha pushes back hard. She says, I don't know you. I don't want my fingerprints sitting in a book in your car that any random person can look at and steal my identity.
SPEAKER_03It's a valid human fear.
SPEAKER_02It is. How do you de-escalate that? How do you reassure her while holding the line without just yelling, it's the law, at her?
SPEAKER_03You educate her on the incredibly strict privacy shields built into California law, specifically to protect that journal.
SPEAKER_02What do you tell her?
SPEAKER_03You explain that the sequential journal is a highly protected, almost sacred record. It is mandated to be under your direct, exclusive control at all times and locked away in a secure receptacle when not in use.
SPEAKER_02It's not just sitting on the dashboard.
SPEAKER_03No. It cannot be casually browsed by the public. If someone wants to see it, they can't just flip through the pages. Access is incredibly restricted.
SPEAKER_02How restricted?
SPEAKER_03In fact, a journal entry can only be viewed via a formal court subpoena, a physical seizure by law enforcement investigating a crime, a direct written request from the Secretary of State, or a highly specific, notarized written request from a member of the public.
SPEAKER_02And that public request has to be specific, right?
SPEAKER_03Very. It must include the exact names of the parties, the specific month and year, and the exact type of document they are looking for.
SPEAKER_02They can't go on a fishing expedition.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And even then, they only get a photocopy of that one single line item. They never see the whole page. They never see anyone else's data.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell That detailed explanation usually calms people down and makes them realize it isn't just a guest book.
SPEAKER_03Usually, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But let's say she is like a sovereign citizen type or just deeply paranoid and she still refuses.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell You have to walk away, right? You absolutely have to walk away. Because if you don't, if you cave to the pressure and notarize it anyway, you run headfirst into the famous thumbs and guns rule.
SPEAKER_02Uh yes. Thumbs and guns. It is a vital memory device many notaries use to remember the specific violations that carry the massive, devastating $2,500 civil penalty.
SPEAKER_03It's a big one.
SPEAKER_02Failing to get a required thumbprint is the thumbs part of that penalty. But why is the state so draconian about this one specific thing? Why a $2,500 fine just for a thumbprint?
SPEAKER_03Because the thumbprint is the ultimate forensic anchor to reality.
SPEAKER_02How so?
SPEAKER_03If a fraudster steals someone's identity and forges a driver's license to steal a house via a deed of trust, the signature is fake, the ID is fake. Right. But they have to leave their actual physical thumbprint in the notary's journal. That biometric marker physically ties the criminal to the scene of the crime.
SPEAKER_02It's the smoking gun.
SPEAKER_03It is the primary tool law enforcement uses to break real estate fraud rings. If you fail to get it, you have essentially aided and abetted a multimillion dollar theft by destroying the evidence trail.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Okay, what if Keisha agrees to give the thumbprint, but she literally doesn't have a right thumb?
SPEAKER_03That happens.
SPEAKER_02Like maybe she lost it in an industrial accident or was born without one.
SPEAKER_03The statute accounts for human reality. If the right thumb is missing or unavailable, you use the left thumb. Okay. If the left thumb is unavailable, you use any available finger on either hand, and you make a highly specific note in the additional information column of your journal about exactly which digit was used.
SPEAKER_02And if they have no fingers.
SPEAKER_03If a severe physical condition, like severe arthritis, burns, or amputation makes any fingerprint impossible, you note that physical condition explicitly in the journal and proceed.
SPEAKER_02So you just document the reality.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. The key is that the journal must explain in detail exactly why the standard right thumbprint isn't there. You never leave the box blank without an explanation.
SPEAKER_02That is brilliant. Okay, moving to scenario number six. You've secured the thumbprint, but what if you can't speak the same language as the thumbs owner?
SPEAKER_03Oh, the language barrier.
SPEAKER_02Yes. A helpful bilingual family member might seem like a lifesaver during a stressful notarization, but they could actually be a legal landmine.
SPEAKER_03Huge landmine.
SPEAKER_02Here's the situation. A signer presents a legal document, but they only speak Spanish. You, the notary, only speak English. Right. You cannot communicate with each other. The signer's bilingual friend who drove them to the appointment offers to act as a bridge.
SPEAKER_03Happens a lot.
SPEAKER_02The friend offers to translate your notarial ceremony, administer the oath in Spanish, and explain your instructions. Can you proceed with the notarization? Here are your options.
SPEAKER_03Option A.
SPEAKER_02Yes, provided the friend signs your journal as an official interpreter.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Option B, yes, but only in severe life or death emergencies, like a hospital signing. Option C, no. California strictly prohibits the use of third-party interpreters during the notarial ceremony.
SPEAKER_03Or option D.
SPEAKER_02No. Unless the friend happens to be a certified state court translator with a badge.
SPEAKER_03What's the call?
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03Make your decision.
SPEAKER_02The correct answer is option C. No third-party interpreters.
SPEAKER_03Direct unassisted communication is the non-negotiable cornerstone of a valid notarization in California.
SPEAKER_02Unassisted is the keyword.
SPEAKER_03Yes. You, the notary, must be able to communicate directly with the signer to verify their identity, to administer a verbal oath or affirmation, and most importantly, to confirm their voluntary intent to sign the document.
SPEAKER_02Let's unpack the philosophy of this because again, it feels restrictive.
SPEAKER_03It does.
SPEAKER_02If I travel to a foreign country, I rely on a tour guide or a translator to navigate everything from ordering food to understanding complex museum exhibits. We trust translators in high stakes, international diplomacy between nuclear powers.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02Why can't a notary rely on a translator to verify simple intent?
SPEAKER_03It comes down to the epistemology of trust and the risk of undue influence.
SPEAKER_02Undue influence?
SPEAKER_03Yes. When you insert a third party, especially a friend, a child, or a family member, into the communication loop, you instantly break the chain of verify trust. How do you, as an English speaker, know that the friend is accurately translating your oath?
SPEAKER_02I don't.
SPEAKER_03You don't. How do you know the friend isn't subtly coercing the signer?
SPEAKER_02Right. Like what if it's a power of attorney?
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Let's say the document is a power of attorney granting the bilingual friend control over the Spanish-speaking signer's bank accounts.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_03You ask, in English, do you understand you are giving away your money? The friend turns to the signer and says, in Spanish, the notary says you have to sign this to get your tax refund.
SPEAKER_02And the signer just smiles and nods.
SPEAKER_03The signer smiles and nods. You see a smile and a nod, you stamp the document, you have just facilitated elder abuse, and you have no idea because you are effectively notarizing the translator's word, not the signer's intent.
SPEAKER_02That creates unacceptable, massive liability.
SPEAKER_03Huge liability.
SPEAKER_02It is worth noting that this isn't the law everywhere, right?
SPEAKER_03No, it varies.
SPEAKER_02This is a very California-specific restriction. If you drive over the border to Arizona, they actually permit the use of a physically present interpreter under certain conditions.
SPEAKER_00They do.
SPEAKER_02But in California, the rule is absolute. If you cannot communicate directly with the signer in a shared language, you cannot notarize for them.
SPEAKER_03The mantra here is when in doubt, refer out.
SPEAKER_02Refer out.
SPEAKER_03Refer them to a colleague who speaks their language fluently. It is the only safe play, and honestly, it is the most professional courtesy you can offer. You are ensuring they receive service from someone who can fully explain the legal process to them in their native language, protecting their rights.
SPEAKER_02Let's stick with the language theme for a scenario number seven.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02We know the conversation between the humans must be in English or a shared language you both speak fluently. But what about the paper itself?
SPEAKER_03The document language.
SPEAKER_02Looking at a dense legal document you can't read is incredibly daunting. Do you ever know what you're stamping? Here's the setup. A signer who speaks completely fluent English presents a document to you.
SPEAKER_03Okay, communication is fine.
SPEAKER_02The document is written entirely in French. Furthermore, it features a pre-printed French notarial certificate at the bottom of the last page. Assuming you only read and speak English, what is the correct protocol?
SPEAKER_03Here are your options.
SPEAKER_02Option A, refuse the notarization completely because the document's contents are unreadable to you. Option B, scan the document for the signer's name and the date, then replace the French certificate with a compliant English one. Option C, notarize the French certificate as is, since the certificate must legally match the document's language.
SPEAKER_03Or option D.
SPEAKER_02Require the signer to provide a certified notarized English translation of the entire document before proceeding.
SPEAKER_03Lock it in.
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03What's the verdict?
SPEAKER_02The correct answer is option B.
SPEAKER_03This specific scenario often trips up newer professionals because it feels profoundly counterintuitive to put your official state seal on a document you cannot read.
SPEAKER_02It feels like you are blindly endorsing something.
SPEAKER_03It does. But you have to remember the strict boundaries of your role. Notaries do not validate the contents, the legality, the fairness, or the wisdom of a document.
SPEAKER_02You are validating the signature and the identity of the signer.
SPEAKER_03That's it.
SPEAKER_02But you can't just close your eyes, ignore the paper, and There is a specific document examination protocol you have to follow, right? Even if it's in French.
SPEAKER_03Yes, absolutely. You must do a visual scan of the document for completeness.
SPEAKER_02So just checking the structure.
SPEAKER_03Even if you don't understand the French paragraphs, you need to visually ensure there are no missing pages. If the bottom of the page says page one of four, you better be able to count four physical pages.
SPEAKER_02What about blanks?
SPEAKER_03You need to look for obvious, glaring blank spaces that should have been filled in before signing like a blank line with a dollar sign next to it. And crucially, you must be able to locate the signer's name in the text, and you must check the date of the document to log it in your journal.
SPEAKER_02If you can identify those basic elements, the language of the document's core content does not matter to you.
SPEAKER_03It does not matter at all.
SPEAKER_02However, the certificate at the bottom of the page is a completely different story.
SPEAKER_03Completely different. The document belongs to the signer. But the certificate is your domain.
SPEAKER_02It's your statement.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It is your official set of instructions detailing the specific notarial act you are swearing to under penalty of perjury. A California notary must be able to read and understand the certificate they are signing.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Therefore, you absolutely cannot use the French certificate. You must cross it out with a single line and attach a compliant English language certificate, either an acknowledgement or a giraffe, depending on what the signer specifically asks for.
SPEAKER_02It's interesting to contrast this with a state like North Dakota, which actually requires a full English translation of the document itself before a notary can touch it.
SPEAKER_03Right. They're much stricter on that.
SPEAKER_02California is much more pragmatic. They just require the certificate to be in English. But again, you have to attach that loose certificate properly with the anti-fraud staples and the detailed descriptions we talked about earlier.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell Always follow the anti-fraud protocol.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And before we head into the final stretch of scenarios, we want to briefly pause and remind you again about the Notary Knowledge Books by Derek Sproul and the Notary Knowledge website.
SPEAKER_03Yes, check those out.
SPEAKER_02The hypotheticals and edge cases we are discussing today are exactly the kinds of real-world challenges covered in extensive depth in those resources.
SPEAKER_03They are lifesavers in the field.
SPEAKER_02If you want to build a bulletproof practice, you need to know where to turn for answers when you are sitting at a table with a frustrated client.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02All right, scenario number eight. We are moving from innocent language mix-ups and clerical errors to outright intentional fraud.
SPEAKER_03The dark side.
SPEAKER_02Yes. We've talked about $750 fines for negligence and $1,500 fines for willful mistakes. But there is one specific misstep that brings the hammer down with a massive five-figure penalty.
SPEAKER_03This is serious.
SPEAKER_02Very serious. Here is the situation. You are a notary working in a corporate office. Your boss, who is also a longtime business partner, calls you. They are currently out of the country on vacation in Europe. However, a critical business document needs to be filed today.
SPEAKER_01Uh-oh.
SPEAKER_02Your boss asks you to do them a solid. You agree, and you willfully sign in stamp an acknowledgement stating your boss personally appeared before you today.
SPEAKER_03Big mistake.
SPEAKER_02What is the maximum civil penalty for this specific act of false certification? Here are your options.
SPEAKER_03Option A, $1,500.
SPEAKER_02Option B, $2,500.
SPEAKER_03Option C, $10,000.
SPEAKER_02Or option D, $75,000.
SPEAKER_03Carefully.
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03Lock it in.
SPEAKER_02The correct answer is option C, $10,000.
SPEAKER_03This is governed by civil code 1189A4. This statute targets the absolute core integrity of the material act.
SPEAKER_02The foundation of the whole thing.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Willfully stating as true any material fact known to be false in a certificate of acknowledgement carries a massive $10,000 civil penalty.
SPEAKER_02Let's be explicitly clear about what a material fact is when we talk about an acknowledgement. When you sign your name on that certificate, you are swearing under oath to three distinct things that the person physically appeared before you, that they were properly identified by you, and that they acknowledged signing the document.
SPEAKER_03That is the core trinity of an acknowledgement.
SPEAKER_02Right. So if you know for a fact your boss is drinking wine in Italy and you stamp a piece of paper swearing they're standing in front of you in California, you have just committed a $10,000 lie.
SPEAKER_03And that is just the administrative civil penalty from the state.
SPEAKER_02There's more.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. You are also looking at the immediate permanent revocation of your commission. Furthermore, the local district attorney will likely file criminal charges against you for perjury and forgery, which carry actual jail time.
SPEAKER_02The psychological pressure here is real, though. It's your boss or your spouse or your best friend. You tell yourself, I know their signature, I know they want this signed. It's just a formality.
SPEAKER_03It is the ultimate betrayal of the office.
SPEAKER_02It is. Because what if that document your boss asked you to notarize was actually a maneuver to hide assets in a pending divorce? You are now a co-conspirator.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. You are part of a crime now.
SPEAKER_02It is interesting to look at option D, though. $75,000. That is a very specific number. Where does that come from?
SPEAKER_03That is the ultimate nuclear penalty in California notary law. A $75,000 fine is reserved for willful fraud connected specifically to a deed of trust on a single family residence.
SPEAKER_02Ah, back to real estate.
SPEAKER_03Always back to real estate. The state views the notary seal as the final fortress wall against real estate theft. If you intentionally participate in a scheme to steal someone's house by waiving personal appearance or faking an ID for a fraudulent deed of trust, the state will crush you financially with a $75,000 fine, in addition to the criminal charges.
SPEAKER_02The lesson here is incredibly simple, but incredibly hard to enforce when you are under pressure.
SPEAKER_03Never ever waive personal appearance.
SPEAKER_02Never. Not for your boss, not for your spouse, not for your dying mother. The risk is astronomical.
SPEAKER_03It's just not worth it.
SPEAKER_02Let's look at scenario number nine. Protecting the public from fraud starts with protecting your own records.
SPEAKER_03Your journal.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Your journal is essentially a portable vault of identities. Treat it carelessly, and you could face the second half of that thumbs and guns rule we talked about earlier.
SPEAKER_03The guns part.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Here is a situation A notary stops at a busy coffee shop between appointments. They leave their active sequential journal sitting wide open on a table while they walk away to the counter to grab their drink.
SPEAKER_01Oh no.
SPEAKER_02A peace officer who happens to be getting coffee witnesses this unsecured journal and asks to inspect it. Right. The notary returns with their drink, but cannot produce the journal immediately because someone at the next table either moved it, hid it, or stole it while the notary was at the counter. Disaster. Absolute disaster. What are the violations here? Here are your options.
SPEAKER_03Option A, a written warning for leaving it out in public.
SPEAKER_02Option B, a $500 infraction for an unsecured journal.
SPEAKER_03Option C, a misdemeanor for failing to secure the journal, plus a $2,500 penalty for failure to provide it to a peace officer.
SPEAKER_02Or option D, no violation as long as the journal is located and recovered within 10 days.
SPEAKER_03What's the damage?
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03Lock it in.
SPEAKER_02The correct answer is option C.
SPEAKER_03This scenario is a complete nightmare of cascading failures under government code 8206.
SPEAKER_02Break down the failures.
SPEAKER_03Let's start with the coffee shop table. A notary must keep one active sequential journal locked in a secured area under their direct and exclusive control.
SPEAKER_02Leaving it open on a table while you get a latte.
SPEAKER_03Is a blatant, indefensible violation of exclusive control. Failing to secure the journal in this manner is classified as a misdemeanor offense.
SPEAKER_02Think about what is in that book. You are leaving names, home addresses, driver's license numbers, signatures, and biometric thumbprints exposed to anyone with a smartphone camera.
SPEAKER_03Someone could take a photo of an entire page in two seconds while you're asking for extra sugar.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Then comes the second, even more expensive failure.
SPEAKER_03The officer.
SPEAKER_02The peace officer requests the journal. Under California law, you must surrender your journal to a peace officer acting in their official capacity immediately upon request.
SPEAKER_03Why immediately though?
SPEAKER_02Because that journal is a continuous chain of evidence. If that officer is tracking a fleeing suspect who just committed mortgage fraud, they need to see that journal right now to confirm the suspect's identity and thumbprint.
SPEAKER_03Right. And because the notary lost track of the book, they failed to provide it.
SPEAKER_02That failure triggers the guns part of the thumbs and guns penalty, a mandatory $2,500 fine.
SPEAKER_03Let's clarify the timeline rules for listeners because it can get very confusing regarding when you have to notify the state about journal issues.
SPEAKER_02Okay, good idea.
SPEAKER_03If a peace officer officially takes your journal for an investigation, you have ten days to notify the Secretary of State that it was surrendered, and you have to tell them exactly which officer took it.
SPEAKER_02But what if the journal wasn't taken by the cop? What if it was actually stolen by the person at the next table?
SPEAKER_03The timeline changes drastically. If a journal is lost, stolen, destroyed, or otherwise compromised, you must notify the Secretary of State by certified mail immediately.
SPEAKER_02Immediately.
SPEAKER_03You do not have 10 days, you do it that day. The state needs to know instantly that a book of highly sensitive public records is out in the wild being used by criminals.
SPEAKER_02The bottom line: keep your journal locked up. Treat it like a briefcase full of cash, because the liability inside it is worth even more.
SPEAKER_00Easily.
SPEAKER_02We have arrived at our final scenario, number 10. We are looking at how you present yourself to the world and how cultural differences can create massive legal traps.
SPEAKER_03This is a huge one.
SPEAKER_02A literal, well-intentioned translation of your job title can permanently end your career in California.
SPEAKER_03It's sad, but true.
SPEAKER_02Here is the situation a newly commissioned California notary decides to advertise their mobile services in a local Spanish language community newspaper to reach a wider demographic.
SPEAKER_03Great business idea, usually.
SPEAKER_02To be helpful and clear to that audience, they literally translate the English words notary public to the Spanish phrase notario in their advertisement.
SPEAKER_03Oh no.
SPEAKER_02What is the consequence of this specific advertising choice? Here are your options.
SPEAKER_03Option A, it is perfectly legal, provided the notary actually speaks fluent Spanish and can service the clients.
SPEAKER_02Option B, a standard fine of $750 for improper advertising formatting.
SPEAKER_03Option C, a first offense results in mandatory suspension, a second offense results in permanent revocation of the commission.
SPEAKER_02Or option D, it triggers a $10,000 fraud penalty.
SPEAKER_03Last question. Lock it in.
SPEAKER_02Audio engineer, please add two to three seconds of ticking thinking music right here.
SPEAKER_03Okay, what is the answer?
SPEAKER_02The correct answer is option C, mandatory suspension. Why is it such a big deal?
SPEAKER_03To understand why this is treated so severely, you have to understand the profound cultural and legal differences between the common law system of the United States and the civil law systems of Latin America. Okay. In many Latin American countries like Mexico, a notario is not a person who takes a six-hour class and passes a multiple choice test. Right. A notario is a highly trained elite attorney. They undergo years of rigorous schooling, they possess quasi-judicial power, they can draft binding legal documents, give binding legal advice, and mediate complex disputes. There are often only a very limited number of notarios allowed per city.
SPEAKER_02In California, a non-attorney notary public cannot do any of those things.
SPEAKER_03None of them.
SPEAKER_02So if you advertise yourself as a notario público in a Spanish language paper, you are falsely implying to a Spanish-speaking immigrant community that you have the power, the education, and the authority of a Latin American attorney.
SPEAKER_03You are misleading vulnerable consumers whether you intend to or not. They will come to you expecting legal representation, and you are not equipped to give it.
SPEAKER_02And because the potential for exploitation is so high, the penalties are severe and mandatory.
SPEAKER_03Very severe. A first offense for using that term in advertising gets your commission suspended for at least a year. Do it again, and your commission is permanently revoked.
SPEAKER_02This plays into the much broader, incredibly important concept of the unauthorized practice of law, or UPL.
SPEAKER_03The UPL trap.
SPEAKER_02Let's push back on this a little bit with a very common everyday scenario. Let's do it. What if a customer brings me a document and there is no preprinted certificate attached? They ask me, which certificate should I use? Do I need an acknowledgement or a giraffe?
SPEAKER_03Happens every single day.
SPEAKER_02Right. Isn't it just good basic customer service to tell them which one fits the document best? I've seen a hundred of these documents. I know which one they need.
SPEAKER_03No, it is a direct violation of business and professions code 6125.
SPEAKER_02Just answering the question.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Choosing a notarial certificate for a signer constitutes the unauthorized practice of law. When you tell them to use a jurat instead of an acknowledgement, you are making a legal determination about the effect of the document. You are giving legal advice.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so how do I help them?
SPEAKER_03As a notary, you can explain the mechanical difference between the two. You can say an acknowledgement confirms your identity and free will, while a jurat compels you to swear to the truthfulness of the document under penalty of perjury.
SPEAKER_02So I just give them the definitions.
SPEAKER_03Yes. You can show them blank samples of both, but the signer absolutely must make the choice.
SPEAKER_02And if they stare blankly at me, throw their hands up and say, I have no idea what any of that means, just pick one for me.
SPEAKER_03You must refuse the notarization.
SPEAKER_02Refuse it completely.
SPEAKER_03You refer them back to the originator of the document, or you refer them to an attorney. You cannot cross that line, no matter how much you want to help and no matter how simple the document seems. The moment you make the choice, you are practicing law without a license.
SPEAKER_02That brings us to the end of our trivia challenge. We have covered a massive amount of ground today, from the granular details of billing and certificates to the constitutional issues of biometrics, language barriers, and outright fraud.
SPEAKER_03We really went through it all.
SPEAKER_02We did. And as you go about your day, I want to leave you with this thought. As our world and our technology evolve toward fully digital remote lives, consider how the physical analog act of ink on paper and the undeniable biometric proof of a thumbprint in a bound journal remains our strongest, most reliable anchor to legal reality.
SPEAKER_03That is so true.
SPEAKER_02The more digital, AI-driven, and remote our society gets, the more vital the physical in-person notary becomes in preventing catastrophic fraud. You are the human element in a digital world.
SPEAKER_03It is a profound responsibility, and you should be proud to hold it.
SPEAKER_02We want to hear from you. Email your questions to Derek at dereksbruel.com. We'll try to answer as soon as possible at the end of our shows.
SPEAKER_03Keep those questions coming.
SPEAKER_02This show is executive produced by Derek Spruel. Lead writer is Marilyn Lee Trotter. Graphics by Eddie Montes Travis. Music by Thomas Bynum. Produced by MagnificentWorks Business Solutions.
SPEAKER_03Great team.
SPEAKER_02Don't just be listeners of the knowledge, be doers of the knowledge. This is notary knowledge. Until next time.
SPEAKER_00Are you truly protected as a notary public? Navigate the complex legal framework with confidence using notary law and liability by Derek Spruil. This essential guide provides a deep dive into state regulations, ensuring you stay compliant across jurisdictions. Learn how to properly use errors and omissions insurance and master the critical boundaries to strictly avoid the unauthorized practice of law. Protect yourself, your commission, and your business. Get your copy of Notary Law and Liability by Derek's Tool on Amazon.
